CHARLIE SWINBOURNE – Journalist, Writer, Director
& WILLIAN MAGER – Writer/Director

America has some talented Deaf & hard-of-hearing filmmakers and screenwriters and we’ve featured several in the D-PAN Gallery over the past couple years. For the first time, we take you over seas to the UK to meet Charlie Swinbourne & William Mager.

For the past 10 years Charlie and William have created an impressive list of films they have written and directed, some together, others individually. A couple of their past films together include the recent award winning ‘Hands Solo’ & ‘The Fingerspellers’. Recently they released ‘My Song’, a coming of age story, which follows Ellen, a young Deaf girl stuck in the middle of the Deaf and hearing worlds. ‘My Song’ has a struck a chord close to home for not just only Deaf and hard-of-hearing individuals who have experienced actions similar to what Ellen has, but it also shows a new world to people who aren’t familiar with Deaf & ASL Culture. Charlie & William took time out of their busy schedules to do a brief Q&A with us about their latest release ‘My Song’, their past & what’s in store for their future!!

How did you get your start in film/writing?

William Mager: It was in the year 2000 that I started my first job as a new media trainee at the BBC, I was doing an MA in Scriptwriting for Film and Television. Soon after, I started writing silly deaf 'spoofs' of well-known films - such as Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, even James Bond - on a UK Deaf email group. Ramon Woolfe (a Deaf UK filmmaker) made an adaptation using my script called Reservoir Wolves, which was quite popular! Those scripts also found their way to Channel 4, who commissioned me to make a short film called Waterfront for their Pulse short film strand on VEE TV (VEE TV was Channel 4's regular deaf magazine program, sadly axed a few years ago). I went on to get funding to make several short films from the National Lottery, and worked as a director at the BBC and elsewhere for several years. It was returning to VEE TV as a full time director that I met Charlie.

Charlie Swinbourne: I wrote my first script, ‘Coming Out,’ while working for the Channel Four deaf magazine series ‘VEE-TV,’ which was also where I met William for the first time. In fact – he was one of the first people I spoke about Coming Out with.

How did the partnership between you two develop?

CS: Since I first started writing, William and I would meet up and talk about our ideas. After both working on different films, I showed him an idea for a film called Hands Solo, which William loved right away. We developed the idea together and I soon asked him if he would direct the film! We got funding and after that, went on to collaborate on The Fingerspellers and My Song. Working together was a test for our friendship, we faced pressures and some long nights and weekends while making those films, luckily we are still able to enjoy a beer together without any ill feeling!

WM: We both shared a passion for films, storytelling and making films. The making of Hands Solo was a LONG process. About six months of just meeting to talk about it in the pub, throwing around really silly ideas for it and so on. When the UK Film Council got involved then a script editor came on board, and that's when we had to start dealing with development by committee. Working together became very pressurized, difficult and stressful, but now we know we can say pretty much anything to each other and know that it's because we both want to make the best film we can!

Both of you have worked in the mainstream media in the UK, what challenges/frustrations have you experienced as Deaf/HoH individuals working with a hearing dominate staff?

CS: One thing that is tricky is always having to explain deafness to people, starting from the beginning again. However I’ve enjoyed the different experiences I’ve had, from working in television to writing articles as a journalist. I’ve found many people to be positive about deafness and that’s allowed me to develop as a writer.

WM: I've worked at the BBC on and off for nearly ten years now. I remember thinking that when I first started at the BBC, that the deaf thing was a pain in the arse, but it would get easier. It doesn't. Like Charlie said you have to have the same conversation about your deafness and how it 'works' over and over again. 'How do you use the phone?' 'How much can you hear?' and so on. But I'm getting pretty slick at explaining how it all works now. That comes with lots of practice! I think also that attitudes now are much better than they were ten years ago. The biggest problem I still have is that people tend to avoid communication - they're afraid of it. That means that problems and misunderstandings develop - you have to be proactive in approaching people and making sure that they are happy with what you're doing.

What was the inspiration behind ‘My Song’?

CS: My Song was born around three years ago; when over a short period of time I saw a few different things happen that made me think about people who come into the deaf community for the first time. Some of those things shocked me – and you see them in a fictional context in the film. I wondered what kind of welcome a newcomer might get, what kind of attitudes they would face, and how they would feel when they entered that room for the first time. I had heard many stories from people who’d gone on to be part of the deaf world but had found the beginning difficult, and I wanted to show what kind of world a newcomer might come from, and just why they want to explore the deaf world. The film is about people in the ‘middle,’ neither part of the deaf or hearing worlds, stuck in a no-man’s land. Together with William, we developed the story and script together, and got funding over a year ago. So the story of Ellen, and My Song was born.

WM: I feel like there is a lot of me in My Song as well. I was born deaf, but grew up in a hearing family and didn't really meet any other deaf people until I was in my 20s. It was only then that I realized how un-deaf aware I was, and how much I'd missed out on growing up. I remember the deaf community being quite welcoming to me at first, but it was when I started to move up and get more involved that I remember encountering 'resistance' from more senior members in the deaf community who didn't want me to get ideas above my station. I found that hard to deal with, and sort of partially withdrew from the deaf world – but over time learned how to keep both worlds in a sort of balance with each other.

Have you noticed a difference in reaction from hearing/Deaf/hard-of-hearing audiences to ‘My Song’?

CS: It was always our aim to make a film that would appeal to both deaf and hearing audiences, and we’ve been pleased that both audiences seem moved and affected by the film. For deaf audiences, it seems that people recognize a lot of truth in the film, and have often gone on to debate the issue at the heart of the film. The most satisfying comment I saw was from one person who wrote on an internet forum that they would think more carefully about how they treated the Ellen’s they met in future. Meanwhile, hearing audiences have said that the film taught them things they didn’t realize about deaf culture. Some people have also related it to other areas such as disability, where people can feel excluded if they don’t have the same condition or experience as someone else. It seems like there are a lot of different reactions to the film, but to our relief, nearly all of them have been positive!

WM: We've had a lot of support from the BSLBT, who backed the idea from the start while recognizing that it took us into controversial territory. There's been a lot of deaf films made - but very few of them are critical of deaf people or the deaf community itself. We tried to be as balanced as possible without coming down on either side of the argument. Deaf and hearing people alike have been moved by it.

Charlie’s first film “Coming Out” pokes fun of the concept of an individual ‘coming out of the closet’, but not as a gay individual, but as a Deaf individual – what was the public reaction to that? Was it what you expected?

CS: I wrote the film because I felt that if Deaf people could only ‘come out,’ it’d solve a lot of problems. I saw how Deaf culture (and what it really meant to be a Deaf individual), were often ignored by family members - this is where the story came from. The thought in my mind was ‘what if a deaf person could be empowered, and tell their mother or father who they really were – and what their deafness really meant to them,’ in the same way that a gay person could ‘come out’ and say who they really are - which I see as an incredibly positive thing. I don’t think deaf people get that opportunity. I made it comedic because I think comedy is a great way of getting the message across, and writing the script was great fun, I enjoyed writing every line. It was my first script and it really encouraged me when people got it – they really understood the meaning behind it and laughed, and that made me feel like writing more!

Your vision for the future of Deaf arts (where do you see it realistically heading, where would you like it go?)

CS: It would be great to see one or two feature-length deaf films being made, with really compelling stories and amazing production values. I’m sure we’ll see some before long – and it’d be great if one of them competed with Children of a Lesser God for wider recognition.

WM: I’d like to see more deaf people getting higher profile roles behind the camera as well as in front of it. We see a lot of deaf people getting a big role on a TV series or in a movie, and getting fame and fortune. But the people writing and directing those projects aren’t deaf, nor do they have any deaf people involved. That will hopefully change in the future.

What are your upcoming projects?

WM: We’re both working on new projects, new ideas and stories, which may be together or apart, depending on where funding takes us. We hoped to make a new drama together this year but sadly it wasn’t to be. I think we’ll both enjoy a bit of a break from filmmaking (and each other!)

CS: We’ll always share our ideas with each other and support each other’s work, even if we don't always work as a partnership.

Anything else you would like to share?

WM: Interestingly, of all the films on my YouTube channel (billster1977), Deaf Mugger has had the most views. A hearing comedian and writer Ben Green wrote Deaf Mugger. His angle of approach to the whole idea was very clever – I had a lot of ideas for the script, but he rejected a lot of them. The reason for that was that he believed neither the hearing person, nor the deaf person is the butt of the joke; instead the humor should come from the situation itself. The sketch took an hour to film, a day to edit, and about 15 minutes to upload to YouTube, where it got more than 125,000 views in a year, and an endorsement from Stephen Fry. That basic principle is something I’ve tried to keep in mind ever since.

Head on over to the D-PAN video gallery ASL SHORTS to check out more videos created by William and Charlie

LINKS:

Charlie’s website, twitter & Blog
http://charlieswinbourne.com/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/swinbourne-charlie
http://www.twitter.com/charlie_swin


William’s website, twitter & Blog
http://wlmager.com/
http://wlmager.tumblr.com
http://www.twitter.com/wlmager